![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
The Cutting Out of La Chevrette (Bristol Museum and Art Gallery)
If we can't get the cutting-out of La Chevrette, maybe we can get this:
National Army Museum
The Cutting Out of La Chevrette (Bristol Museum and Art Gallery)
If we can't get the cutting-out of La Chevrette, maybe we can get this:
National Army Museum
Also, if it wasn't specifically mentioned before:
Royal Marines' Museum, ref 11/19/93 - although I think the RMM one is a different actual poster; the image above is from the War of 1812
Royal Marines' Museum, ref 11/19/93 - although I think the RMM one is a different actual poster; the image above is from the War of 1812
The Hero of Trafalgar by W.H. Overend
If by any chance we could possibly trace who the artist is, this'd be a nice representation of Marines ashore (I think it's likely to be a recruiting party at a billet, or something like it.)
Another couple it might be worth adding to the coloured photos section (these and 'In Irons for Getting Drunk are both at the NMM - they've got a lot of the pics we'd like to use)
I think we ought to have a sticky post/thread for useful links we find on our many trawls around the Intarwebz. I'll lead with this:
The Pawleys of Leicestershire, who apparently had an ancestor in the Chatham Division of Royal Marines.
John Neale , Matthew Makepeace , and Joshua Squire , were indicted, the first for the wilful murder of Thomas Nogan , and the two others for aiding, abetting, comforting, and assisting him in committing the said murder , Sept. 27 1759 (Neale was a Marine aboard the Phenix hospital ship.)
The Pawleys of Leicestershire, who apparently had an ancestor in the Chatham Division of Royal Marines.
John Neale , Matthew Makepeace , and Joshua Squire , were indicted, the first for the wilful murder of Thomas Nogan , and the two others for aiding, abetting, comforting, and assisting him in committing the said murder , Sept. 27 1759 (Neale was a Marine aboard the Phenix hospital ship.)
As the need arose during the turbulent years around the turn of the century the marines were called upon to suppress shipboard rebellions 1 and, on the whole, they performed this unpleasant duty admirably. The members of the court which tried the mutineers of the Excellent, for example, were so impressed with the conduct of the marines during the uprising that they sent the commander-in-chief the following memorandum:
1 - Field, 'The marines in the great naval mutinies, 1797-1802', pp. 720-46
2 - ADM 1/324, R. Stopford et al. to S. Hood, 28 December 1802
The court is highly sensible of the active exertions of the officers of His Majesty's ship Excellent in quelling the late mutiny on board her, and also of the officers, non-commissioned officers and private marines of his Majesty's ship Excellent who by their firmness in resisting the attempts to seduce them from their duty and in opposing men in actual mutiny have proved themselves to be well deserving of the late distinguished mark of his Majesty's favour.2
1 - Field, 'The marines in the great naval mutinies, 1797-1802', pp. 720-46
2 - ADM 1/324, R. Stopford et al. to S. Hood, 28 December 1802
(The original is not available to view, but a copy may be acquired from TNA here for £3.36, or free on visiting TNA at Kew.)
It is a printed form with spaces for the person to fill in (or have filled in on their behalf) their details. At the top is the Royal coat of arms.
Parts that are handwritten in the original will be italicised below.
In the Name of God, Amen, I, Joseph Comber Private Marine on Board His Majesty's Ship [Temeraire? hard to read] (No 114 on Ships [sic] Books) Edw Marsh Esq Captain being in bodily Health and of sound and of disposing Mind and Memory, and considering the Perils and Dangers of the Seas, and other Uncertainties of this transitory Life, (do for avoiding Controversies after my Decease) make, publish and declare this my last Will and Testament in Manner following (that is to say) First I recommend my Soul to God that gave it, and my Body i commit to Earth or Sea as it shall please God to Order; and as for and concerning all my worldly Estate I give, bequeath and dispose thereof: That is to say I do give & bequeath, to my dearly beloved wife Rose Comber - now living at Chiddingstone near Sevenoaks in the County of Kent all such -- Wages, Sum and Sum of Money, Lands, Tenements, Goods, Chattels and Estate whatsoever, as shall be any ways due owing, or belonging unto me at the Time of my Decease, I do give, devise and bequeath the same unto the said Rose Comber living in the place or County aforesaid -- ----
And I do hereby appoint the said Rose Comber --- ---- Sole Executrix of this my last Will and Testament, hereby revoking all former and other Wills, Testaments, and Deeds of Gift, by me at any Time heretofore made. And I do ordain and ratify the Presents, to stand and be for, and as my only last Will and Testament.
[As] (page a little damaged)Witness whereof, to this my said Will I have set my Hand and Seal the twenty seventh Day of September in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred, and in the fortieth Year of the Reign of His Majesty King George the Third over Great Britain, &c Josph Comber His Mark X
Signed, sealed, published, and
declared in the Presence of us
[signed] Edw. Marsh, Captain
N. Onslow Master
_________________
Printed and Sold by E. HOXLAND, Plymouth-Docks
It is a printed form with spaces for the person to fill in (or have filled in on their behalf) their details. At the top is the Royal coat of arms.
Parts that are handwritten in the original will be italicised below.
In the Name of God, Amen, I, Joseph Comber Private Marine on Board His Majesty's Ship [Temeraire? hard to read] (No 114 on Ships [sic] Books) Edw Marsh Esq Captain being in bodily Health and of sound and of disposing Mind and Memory, and considering the Perils and Dangers of the Seas, and other Uncertainties of this transitory Life, (do for avoiding Controversies after my Decease) make, publish and declare this my last Will and Testament in Manner following (that is to say) First I recommend my Soul to God that gave it, and my Body i commit to Earth or Sea as it shall please God to Order; and as for and concerning all my worldly Estate I give, bequeath and dispose thereof: That is to say I do give & bequeath, to my dearly beloved wife Rose Comber - now living at Chiddingstone near Sevenoaks in the County of Kent all such -- Wages, Sum and Sum of Money, Lands, Tenements, Goods, Chattels and Estate whatsoever, as shall be any ways due owing, or belonging unto me at the Time of my Decease, I do give, devise and bequeath the same unto the said Rose Comber living in the place or County aforesaid -- ----
And I do hereby appoint the said Rose Comber --- ---- Sole Executrix of this my last Will and Testament, hereby revoking all former and other Wills, Testaments, and Deeds of Gift, by me at any Time heretofore made. And I do ordain and ratify the Presents, to stand and be for, and as my only last Will and Testament.
[As] (page a little damaged)Witness whereof, to this my said Will I have set my Hand and Seal the twenty seventh Day of September in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Eight Hundred, and in the fortieth Year of the Reign of His Majesty King George the Third over Great Britain, &c Jos
Signed, sealed, published, and
declared in the Presence of us
[signed] Edw. Marsh, Captain
N. Onslow Master
Printed and Sold by E. HOXLAND, Plymouth-Docks
Pics I'd like to include in the colour prints section...
In the collection of the NMM:
Annotated 'Seamen relaxing on the Pallas', I believe they're off-duty Marines in their forage/off-watch caps. This may have been drawn on the 'Pallas's transatlantic leg from Africa (whence they sailed on 4 April 1775) to Barbados. The view is almost certainly on the starboard side of the main-deck forward hatch, under the companionway, with the starboard anchor cable going down to the tier below. From his apparent headgear the seaman shown and the man seated on a sea chest with a tankard in his hand, far right, are probably Marines. The man in the centre is sewing an item of clothing. See also PAJ2031 which appears to show the port side of the hatchway.
Gabriel Bray (1750-1823)
Four Marines eating Pease aboard the Pallas by Lt Gabriel Bray
A sentry on the Pallas' gangway by Lt Gabriel Bray
Two Marines on the Pallas' gangway by Lt Gabriel Bray
A Marine & A seaman fishing off the anchor aboard Pallas in the Senegal Road by Lt Gabriel Bray
A Marine asleep beneath a companionway by Lt Gabriel Bray
Disposition of the HMS Bedford, 1775 (showing arrangements of hammocks with the Marines aft)
From the City Art Gallery, Bristol
>
The Boarding of La Chevrette by de Loutherbourg, 1801
The Death of Nelson by Denis Dighton (RN Museum? NMM? Not 100% sure who owns the actual painting!)
In Irons for Getting Drunk by George Cruikshank (Again, who owns the copyright/an actual copy we can use, I dunno!)
A copy of an RM attestation form from TNA (whose, exactly, is yet to be determined!)
In the collection of the NMM:
Annotated 'Seamen relaxing on the Pallas', I believe they're off-duty Marines in their forage/off-watch caps. This may have been drawn on the 'Pallas's transatlantic leg from Africa (whence they sailed on 4 April 1775) to Barbados. The view is almost certainly on the starboard side of the main-deck forward hatch, under the companionway, with the starboard anchor cable going down to the tier below. From his apparent headgear the seaman shown and the man seated on a sea chest with a tankard in his hand, far right, are probably Marines. The man in the centre is sewing an item of clothing. See also PAJ2031 which appears to show the port side of the hatchway.
Gabriel Bray (1750-1823)
Four Marines eating Pease aboard the Pallas by Lt Gabriel Bray
A sentry on the Pallas' gangway by Lt Gabriel Bray
Two Marines on the Pallas' gangway by Lt Gabriel Bray
A Marine & A seaman fishing off the anchor aboard Pallas in the Senegal Road by Lt Gabriel BrayA Marine asleep beneath a companionway by Lt Gabriel Bray
Disposition of the HMS Bedford, 1775 (showing arrangements of hammocks with the Marines aft)From the City Art Gallery, Bristol
>
The Boarding of La Chevrette by de Loutherbourg, 1801
The Death of Nelson by Denis Dighton (RN Museum? NMM? Not 100% sure who owns the actual painting!)
In Irons for Getting Drunk by George Cruikshank (Again, who owns the copyright/an actual copy we can use, I dunno!)
A copy of an RM attestation form from TNA (whose, exactly, is yet to be determined!)
What does '3rd Class' mean when referring to Marines?
What exactly is a Supernumerary?
Was there some specific mark to distinguish Chatham Marines from those of other Divisions? (Black plume in the De Loutherbourg painting - Bristol Art Gallery)
What, exactly, did the OR's lace look like?
What were the verbal orders given to a sentry? I'd like to know the form the orders took for a sentry post aboard ship - what the Marine was supposed to do. "To guard my position..." etc.
The duties and role of a boy, RM - still training? Able to do certain sentry duties? Officer's steward?
Drafts between divisions - how, why, how many.
Duties of women in the barracks? Since it was mentioned in the Records of the Marines thing
What does 'DSQ' mean in a man's records?
(This list just keeps on growing!! :D)
What exactly is a Supernumerary?
Was there some specific mark to distinguish Chatham Marines from those of other Divisions? (Black plume in the De Loutherbourg painting - Bristol Art Gallery)
What, exactly, did the OR's lace look like?
What were the verbal orders given to a sentry? I'd like to know the form the orders took for a sentry post aboard ship - what the Marine was supposed to do. "To guard my position..." etc.
The duties and role of a boy, RM - still training? Able to do certain sentry duties? Officer's steward?
Drafts between divisions - how, why, how many.
Duties of women in the barracks? Since it was mentioned in the Records of the Marines thing
What does 'DSQ' mean in a man's records?
(This list just keeps on growing!! :D)
"My advent in the guardship as a marine recruit was of a very different nature to my first experience as a volunteer in the naval service, for all of the new hands were at once put into the regular messes of the marines on board, and everything was done that the nature of our rather limited arrangements would admit of to make us comfortable."
Daniel Goodall, Salt Water Sketches; Being Incidents in the Life of Daniel Goodall, quoted in Jack Tar by Roy and Lesley Adkins, chapter entitled Learning the Ropes (p29 my copy)
I KNEW the name 'Goodall' was familiar! :D
Daniel Goodall, Salt Water Sketches; Being Incidents in the Life of Daniel Goodall, quoted in Jack Tar by Roy and Lesley Adkins, chapter entitled Learning the Ropes (p29 my copy)
I KNEW the name 'Goodall' was familiar! :D
The RM Museum site has a table here giving the complements of Marines to rates of ship - the first two tables are of most interest to us, as they give complements for 1747 and the 1770s.
The 1747 table differs a little to the table given in Appendix A of The Formative Years (copied out here.)
For example, the 1747 table gives 100 privates aboard a ship of 90-100 guns, as well as 1 captain, 3 lieutenants, 4 sergeants, 4 corporals and 3 drummers, making a total of 115 altogether.
The Formative Years gives the complements (between 1803-1806) as 1 captain, 3 lieutenants, 4 sergeants, 4 corporals, 2 drummers and 131 privates, with a total of 145 altogether. (The RMM table for the 1770s gives 5 corporals and 130 men, with the other numbers and the total the same as The Formative Years.)
The 1747 table differs a little to the table given in Appendix A of The Formative Years (copied out here.)
For example, the 1747 table gives 100 privates aboard a ship of 90-100 guns, as well as 1 captain, 3 lieutenants, 4 sergeants, 4 corporals and 3 drummers, making a total of 115 altogether.
The Formative Years gives the complements (between 1803-1806) as 1 captain, 3 lieutenants, 4 sergeants, 4 corporals, 2 drummers and 131 privates, with a total of 145 altogether. (The RMM table for the 1770s gives 5 corporals and 130 men, with the other numbers and the total the same as The Formative Years.)
A sailor's interaction with a Marine recruit.
We then returned to our anchors [the narrator's ship was stationed in Cork at this point] and. about a month after, took under convoy 7 sail of homeward bound East India Men, and a Transport called the Paddy and Jenny, with recruits on board for the third or Plymouth division of marines; but being in want of seamen, I and five more were sent to assist the Captain in working her to Plymouth. when we got into a rough sea, the poor unseasoned recruits appeared like so many spectres; and when we came off the lizard, we carried away our fore top-mast; but getting up a jury top-mast, top-sail yard, &c. and standing off shore (the wind being a-head) a recruit came forward, saying, Arah, where are we going? I told him to Plymouth. But, how, my dear joy, said he, can leaving the land be going to Plymouth? I said we should shortly put about and stand the other way, which joyful tidings he instantly communicated to his comrades, who all wished to be on land again, that they might have a little respite from the rough treatment they had already met with on the watery element.
From Memoirs of a Seaman's Life: The Narrative of William Spavens, pp55-56, by the Folio Society, in 2000.
We then returned to our anchors [the narrator's ship was stationed in Cork at this point] and. about a month after, took under convoy 7 sail of homeward bound East India Men, and a Transport called the Paddy and Jenny, with recruits on board for the third or Plymouth division of marines; but being in want of seamen, I and five more were sent to assist the Captain in working her to Plymouth. when we got into a rough sea, the poor unseasoned recruits appeared like so many spectres; and when we came off the lizard, we carried away our fore top-mast; but getting up a jury top-mast, top-sail yard, &c. and standing off shore (the wind being a-head) a recruit came forward, saying, Arah, where are we going? I told him to Plymouth. But, how, my dear joy, said he, can leaving the land be going to Plymouth? I said we should shortly put about and stand the other way, which joyful tidings he instantly communicated to his comrades, who all wished to be on land again, that they might have a little respite from the rough treatment they had already met with on the watery element.
From Memoirs of a Seaman's Life: The Narrative of William Spavens, pp55-56, by the Folio Society, in 2000.
I've come across references to boy Marines, but again I'm not sure of where they fall in with the duties &c of a detachment. These aren't drummers, but regular Marines, if younger than most.
Their duties? Powder monkey in battle, possibly nippers when weighing anchor (check this) but otherwise?
Were they still training? Learning musket drill?
Pay?
At what age did they stop being mustered as 'boy Marines' and start mustering as adult Marines?
Their duties? Powder monkey in battle, possibly nippers when weighing anchor (check this) but otherwise?
Were they still training? Learning musket drill?
Pay?
At what age did they stop being mustered as 'boy Marines' and start mustering as adult Marines?
( Information Below )(Appendices are posted here - including numbers of Marines per rate of ship)
Minor error: St Vincent's instructions are duplicated; the original post is here.
Minor error: St Vincent's instructions are duplicated; the original post is here.
I'm just thinking about how to start writing stuff up, and work out chapters and stuff. D'you have any thoughts at all?
From The Lost War: Letters from British Officers during the American Revolution
Letter from Lieutenant William Feilding (Marine adjutant) to Lord Denbigh.
( Letter below )
Letter from Thomas Dicey to Lord Denbigh.
( Letter below )
Letter from Lord Denbigh to Thomas Dicey.
( Letter below )
Letter from Lieutenant William Feilding (Marine adjutant) to Lord Denbigh.
( Letter below )
Letter from Thomas Dicey to Lord Denbigh.
( Letter below )
Letter from Lord Denbigh to Thomas Dicey.
( Letter below )
Tags:
